Has anyone noticed that English Lit and Rhetoric and Composition post details of hiring packages? Should we do that here? Can someone with solid wiki skills set it up (clearly not me - I cannot figure how to insert the links)? In favor: 2; Not in favor: 0. Note: you need to register and sign in to edit the salary page. [actually, you don't need to register, or at least I did it and have never registered. Hopefully this will lead to more entries, this is a very valuable resource]
Is it just me, or does it seem that things are proceeding very slowly? There's not much new information here.Most places are inviting four finalists this year instead of two or three, so everything is taking longer (3/5).
Very, very slowly, agreed. It is maddening, and frightening. Also, I'm afraid people aren't bothering to post, esp. in modern (3/5)
"People aren't bothering to post" ... C'mon, really? We're at the stage, for many of these searches, where campus visits are happening, faculty committees are deliberating, and offers are being made. Many a finalist, and many a school, would prefer a little privacy at this point. It can easily be 3-6 weeks between an initial offer and a signed contract. It does nobody any favors to have the world know that negotiations are underway, especially when alternate candidates are being kept in the wings. Just because the wiki exists, does not mean people are obligated to post everything that is happening. Whoever put in these annoyong boxes, could you please remove them? I can't figure out how to.
- I am someone who has several campus interviews this year, might be one of those lucky enough to be kept in the wings etc. etc., and I disagree. From suffering, wondering what is going on in many years past, any bit of information that any one of us offers here, I know from experience, will greatly help us and our colleagues in judging what they are up against and how to make the decisions that will affect us the rest of their lives. Whoever posts- Don't fear these bullies and never doubt the benefit of speaking the truth!
-- Whoever you are up there, yes you Mister or Miss potty mouth, why don't you go ahead and just take a chill pill. You seem like somebody who needs a hug. And, you know what -- potty mouth -- we are all free to post or not-post as we see fit. Get over it. XXOO DAN MARINO PS, I agree with the person who you don't like very much. Nobody owes you anything. Get over it. XXOO
- Colloquiallisms now removed, but sentiment preserved: no one is obligated to post, certainly, but those who feel a responsibility to do so should not feel intimidated or threatened into being silent. Rest assured that your efforts have the potential to do a great deal of good and alleviate undue complication and suffering in a lot of people's lives. This wiki is doing a lot of good and, despite the inevitible bumps and squabbles, its positive effects should not be underestimated.
no need to get so upset. all the person in the first post said was that s/he was afraid no one is posting. that is not a criticism, it's just a comment. it means that there's not much point to the wiki. it's natural, in a job search that takes so long with so little information forthcoming, that candidates would like to know where they stand. it's nothing to get nasty about. personally I would like to see the tone of this wiki become more generous. we are all each other's colleagues, and we may work together one day. no need to allow anonymity to reduce our basic sense of politeness and human kindness.
Knowing WHO is interviewing is not going to help anyone (Unless you are planning on killing them). Here's the thing: think of it like dating. You had a first date. You thought it went well. They may call, they may not call. It is out of your control at this point. if they don't call you they are not interested. Its that simple. Who cares why? The hell with them. Move on. Everyone seems too concerned about about not getting a rejection letter promptly enough or not know who they are now interviewing or who is on the short list and when.... I had two interviews and have heard nothing from either of them. On WIki I see that one has scheduled campus interviews, the other has nothing posted. MY position at this point--much like dating--is that they are not interested so whether they tell me so or not is completely irrelevant. I am no longer waiting by the phone. I am a little bit interested in who they are now "seeing" and why, but I am not beating myself up about it. If it doesn't work out with the new person, they have my number... I might pick up.
- I totally agree that knowing 'who else' is not going to help anything other than add more uneeded anxiety during one's wait. At this point, unless the department is able to tell you the status if you call them, for this period of time in the job cycle (March), it's better for one's sanity to continue to assume things are just taking long because of spring breaks, widely spaced interviews and bureacratic nonsense (which is most often the case).
does anyone know if there is any type of discussion board like the art history one, for fine/visual art? the one listed on wikia is from last year. i know that artists aren't usually one's to use technology, but this is pathetic...````
Um, for those of us that are still unemployed, could we perhaps start a support network or something? I am sure I am not alone and I would like to hear about the strategies others are developing to deal with this situation. If something like this already exists, if someone could post some information about it, I would be very grateful. 220.127.116.11 18:52, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
Who is the administrator of this wiki? There seems to be some hacking going on (with adds and such) and I wonder who is taking care of that sort of thing...
Is there a listing somewhere for overseas jobs? I'd like to know what happened with the jobs in Abu Dhabi, for example, or the University of Georgia position in Cortona, Italy. Just wondering if next time around I would have better luck in jobs outside of the U.S.
-- I know that the UGA position has been filled but I cannot tell you about the Abu Dhadi job. Sorry. Last year, people posted them on the standard wiki and people commented as the process when along...
--Anyone know who got the UGA job? I saw that they were also looking for a new director for the program--seems like it must be in flux.
--It is an Italian woman...that is all I know. Information from a knowledgable source, though, confirms that the program is best avoided (for art historians, at least).
Should there be a separate section for Visiting positions and sabbatical replacements? Some of them state a preference of field (like Oberlin) but not all of them. Thoughts?
I was actually wondering if fellowships/postdocs shouldn't be listed under their topics, like VAP jobs -- it amounts to almost the same thing these days, doesn't it? I think it makes more sense to have everything for each field in one place, since it's the same circle of people applying for many (if not most) of them. Another thought: should there be a section for museum jobs, perhaps of all shapes and sizes? Or if there is a separate wiki for that, can someone give me the link?
But lots of VAPs and postdocs don't specify a field... I guess then they would just go under general?
- Re section on museum jobs: please feel free to add in museum positions!!! In past years, curatorial positions have been listed on the wiki, sometime in a separate section, sometime mixed in with teaching jobs (ie, a Ren curator position would be listed with other Renaissance jobs). I think they often don't get posted here, though, because museum jobs don't usually follow the typical academic hiring schedule.
Job Search[edit source]
Anyone else feeling nervous about the job market this year? yes! we should use this forum to have a discussion about our collective frustrations. it's bad to be a modernist this year... (1/12)
yes, bad year to be an Americanist too (1/12)
Baaaaad year to be an Asianist too.
Bad year in ANY field. Especially for ABDs. Soooo many people still floating around from last year.
or perhaps the outlook is bleak overall for freshly minted phds. has anybody started thinking about plan b?
Yes, venting frustrations is good. Plan B? No one warned us we would need one! I'm open to suggestions.
(np) I'm madly applying for student advising poistions at my school, along with all the English Phds and History Phds that don't have jobs either. It sounds like a good job, actually.
has anyone looked into teaching at private high schools? Is this an option for art historians? If so, where to begin? I would like to know, too (1/20) A: One good source is Carney Sandoe, a search firm specializing in academic searches, particularly in secondary ed. www.carneysandoe.com. (3/16)
does anyone else find it incredibly frustrating that there are still a ton of art history jobs that have not set interviews for CAA yet? i think a month's notice would be courteous. i am clearly living in a dream world. it would be VERY nice to find out before the pre-conference registration period (non-refundable fee!) ends for CAA on jan 22... (1/17) Yes, I hate nervously waiting to hear. I think it is exacerbated by CAA happening earlier this year. Why, oh why, are there so few jobs? (1/21) Agreed. I think it's just bad form to give applicants such short notice before CAA. SO LAME.
Glad I'm not the only one worried about the lack of contact. I ended up buying a ticket to CAA just in case. I'll be so upset if I don't even get an interview (1/22) I am in the same boat...it must be a very competitive market.
This has been the most depressing year. So few jobs, no calls yet. I don't know what to do! (1/23)
There has also been a distinct lack of Wiki activity this year, as opposed to last year. Yes, I am back again this year.
(2/4): yes the job market sucks this year. But, I remember watching my friends/colleagues with PhDs take as long as 3 years to land tenure-track gigs, and that is with degrees from good schools, prestigious fellowships, etc. So, unless you consider yourself R1 material, you should probably know that most schools want you to have at least a year of solid teaching experience before hiring you for TT. Remember that liberal arts colleges want teachers, but most PhD programs train researchers. There are just so many problems with the academic system one hardly knows where to start. I do think it is wise to think about a plan B, unless of course you don't mind working as an adjunct of VAP as you gain experience and marketability.
Any one else nervous about interviews at CAA? With so few jobs, I can't help but feel more nervous than I might otherwise.
So I was contacted a couple of days ago (around Feb. 5), and asked to have an interview at CAA. I wasn't planning to go as I had no other interviews. Now I can't find a decent/affordable plane ticket (or a hotel reservation) to save my life. What do I do?
A: Try Priceline for both. Any friends that would let you crash in their hotel room for a night and and maybe you can share some expenses?
- Just curious---for those who are at CAA, are interviews going on as scheduled? I imagine many people must have travel delays. Any fallout from that?
- yes. E.g. Georgetown canceled their interviews entirely (the faculty did not make it to CAA). Many people rescheduled; some did phone interviews because their flights were canceled.
I understand that it's been a frustrating year for many, if not most of us, and I can only speak to my own field, Asian, but how much better does it get than this? Speaking only for myself, I applied to over 20 jobs and Asian specific post-docs and skipped at least 4 potential applications. There were at least 15 tenure track positions and 3 longer term (3+ years) opportunities, only one of which got cancelled. I did the lion's share of compiling the wiki list (a product of my compulisiveness more than anything else), know that I skipped adding several overseas positions for one reason or another, and there are still 23 positions listed. Seriously: how much better does it get than this? This is a genuine question.
- A: Of all the fields on the wiki, Asian seems to be doing the best this year. You are probably right that the job count isn't that different than a "good" year. But in many other fields (American, 19th c., 20th c., contemporary to name a few) the pickings are unusually thin. Especially given that there are far, far more people in these fields than in Asian. In pre-18th c. areas of western art the problem is that many more assistant prof jobs than normal are going to other assistant profs, rather than to ABDs/postdocs, creating (worsening??) a bottleneck. And overall there are very few VAP jobs because of budget cuts affecting replacements.
- R (from the poster immediately above): I agree, the Wiki does suggest Asian is particularly strong this year. While this may in fact be so, the reason I mentioned by rather compulsive maintenance of the list was to indicate that other areas may not have been kept up with the same, well, compulsiveness -- there were a lot of jobs in other fields out there that I never saw listed on the Wiki. Anyway, that's neither here nor there: it is true that there are more people in those fields than in Asian, though that is partially attributable to the fact that there have historically been many more Western lines in American art history departments (e.g., someone for every period from Byz to modern), whereas there has only been one Asianist to teach south to east, prehistoric to contemporary. In other words, the history of the market has likely helped form the applicant pool over time. That this might be changing now reflects a growing consensus that there need to be more non-Western positions more than anything else. As for the bottle neck, that strikes me as not entirely making sense -- when those assistant profs leave their jobs for other assistant prof positions, their original positions come open. Yes, some of those positions are being eliminated, but my guess is not many in absolute numbers. The truth is, as I said in my original post, this has clearly been a frustrating couple of years for those of us on the job market that have left many without the career options, at least in the short term, to which they long aspired. That said, I'm waiting for (and very open to and interested in) the statistics that show that the market itself is more limited.
- New Poster: Since I haven't been on the market long, I don't really know if it was a good or a bad year for my field (medieval). It sure felt bad to me. It seems to me that while there were more positions in medieval this year than last, there were very few "starter" positions; most of them were in higher-profile departments with graduate programs. The hiring freezes of the last few years have produced a backlog of qualified candidates, so the applicant pool is very deep, and the competition is that much more fierce. If you don't yet have the qualifications (or compensatory "buzz") to teach at that level, you're out of luck. For specifically medieval positions, there were no small college jobs, no second-tier state school jobs; I know from the grapevine that the four finalists for the one TT job that didn't have a graduate program all already had books in print, which astonished the people at that school. And just a note of empathy: medievalists are in a fairly similar position to Asianists. It's usually expected that we'll teach 1200+ years of art history, encompassing a wide array of cultures, and, oh, yeah, any chance you could teach Islamic, too? Note also the number of positions for "Ancient/Medieval," so now we're up to 3000 or so years, and dozens of belief systems - pretty close to your lot. Maybe we should just agree to hate on the modernists, who have, at most, 120 years to cover? (Just kidding, modernists. Well, only kind of.)
- As an old-time medievalist, I can say that in fact this was a pretty good year. There are rarely this many opportunities for medievalists. But I do agree w/ the poster above that there weren't many "starter" jobs, and that there is intense competition, with very well-qualified people, many of whom are well-published, for these positions. But what I'm noticing is that no one wants an old-fashioned medievalist any more. It seems that a lot of the searches are for Byzantinists, Islamicists, or "Mediterranean world" people. It's bad enough when as a medievalist one is expected to teach Late Antique, all of the Medieval West, preferably a bit of Byzantine art, and Late Gothic/ Northern Ren. But apparently even that is not enough now. I can teach all of that and more, but as someone who has primarily published on French medieval, I'm feeling marginalized! Maybe that's a good thing for the field, but it's not for me. I'm feeling a bit like some friends who spent years learning Russian, only to find that the world now demands expertise in Arabic.
What does it take?[edit source]
When I first went out on the job market (in 1998) without my PhD in hand, with only TA experience, and with one really good fellowship to my credit, I got SEVEN job interviews, many at top-drawer schools. I ended up not getting a job that year, and then life took me in other directions for a while, but the next time I went out in 2004 (with more teaching experience, and an Art Bulletin article) I also had a number of interviews, and was a finalist for three jobs, one of which I got. Now, however, I am someone whose name is recognized by my peers, whose publications are widely read and cited, who has a book under contract, and who was recently the the recipient of a major fellowship, and I got precisely ZERO interviews this year, despite applying to a significant number of jobs. Maybe it's because it looks as if I'm trying to leverage a tenure decision (I am, but that's not my only motivator and I would certainly change jobs gladly), but I suspect it has to do with the economic environment. Those of us who are actually proven are even worse off than some of you newbies, since we're perceived as being more expensive (even if, as in my case, I would take a pay cut on my already low salary to leave my benighted institution). I don't have any wisdom to offer, but I just want to send an empathetic shout out to other frustrated job-seekers in this tough, miserable market. 18.104.22.168 18:36, February 19, 2010 (UTC)
- "those of us who are actually proven are even worse off than some of you newbies" - Okay, I see what you're getting at here in general, and I'm sure you're frustrated, but this is simply not true. "Newbies" are living term-to-term on the pittance that is adjuncting salaries, often with no health insurance, with no chance to put down any roots. You have a job, and, frankly, I'll bet more than a few "newbies" are pretty annoyed to know that they are jockeying with established scholars for interviews just so those scholars can have a better bargaining position. I'm not saying that you should not be doing what you're doing, but, please have the decency to recognize what you already have, and the courtesy not to denigrate what so many others want very badly.
- I'm in a similar position to OP, and while I sympathize w/ what the person above me has posted, I too feel that I am in a worse position now, as an established scholar looking for a new position, than I was when I was ABD and on the market, and especially as a newly-minted Ph.D. I think we're perceived as old news, and you 'newbies' are young, fresh, and full of promise. I do have some interviews, but I seriously doubt that I will be hired this year, and then I will probably be forced to leave academia. I think what the OP is saying is that the market has changed, and the opportunities, at every stage, have really dried up. And while those who are just coming on the market are understandably discouraged, you're probably young enough to make several attempts at getting an academic job, or even switch professions. For some of us, it's simply too late to be serious contenders. It's also pretty late to rethink one's entire career path.
- I think we can all agree that no matter the stage in our respective careers, it just plain sucks right now. I think it's useless to debate who is worse off because the fact is that we are all in the same gigantic sinking boat. I realize that is a bit melodramatic, but I think it probably describes how a lot of us feel.
I'm out of here[edit source]
Three CAA interviews, 2 campus visits, and no offers. While a student, 30K worth of outside grants, a major publication, and teaching experience at two schools other than my alma mater. Researched and wrote the diss in four years, along with publishing non-diss material. I'm out. Life is too short.22.214.171.124 23:13, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
DITTO - three interviews an no offers. And a massive chip on my shoulder. Apparently my work isn't "diverse" enough to teach -- never mind the quality of my publications, fellowships, dissertation award, etc. Nah, it's quantity they want, not quality.
I honestly don't know what they want - I had equal measures of experience teaching Western and non-Western art, which for a 20th C specialist is rare. Something died in me once I found out I did not have any offers. People change careers at 50 and I am only 30. Really people, life is too short. All this for 30K a year? No thanks.
Wow, I am really sorry to hear this. I know that I was passed over for candidates who could also teach non-Western. Anyway, I agree that life is too short. I already gave them my best years while pinching pennies to stay afloat. Now I'm supposed to adjunct for three years until I can get a "real" job? Eventually Higher Ed is going to realize that they are no longer going to attract the best and brightest. Who in their right mind would sign up for this? I feel as though we were just unlucky to finish in a year when the economy and changes in Higher Ed conspired to produce an impossible job market. Prospective grad students in the future will have been warned. I hope.
To those who are out of here: I'm truly sorry that it has come to that, because it's not what you hoped for, but bravo for the bravery to decide that there is more and better in life than the more exploitative versions of academic life (which, perhaps, reflects onto all of academia). At least for the moment, I won a two year reprieve this year, but I hope that if the time comes that I'm faced with your situation, that I am as decisive about my future as you have been. Best of luck -- 126.96.36.199 13:36, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
Get Everything in Writing[edit source]
I received an offer from Lincoln University (PA). A week and a half later, they retracted the offer. I don't have the offer or retraction in writing. I was told that the Senior VP had to approve it when they made the offer, but I was assured that wouldn't be a problem. When they retracted the offer, I was told that they wanted someone with the PhD already in hand. I defended and passed in April, and I will graduate in August before the Fall term begins. They were aware of this from their first phone call and via my professor's reference letter. I think the VP just wanted another candidate. My professors were quite upset and stated that this was most unusual and unprofessional. Yet, I don't have the paperwork, energy or finances to pursue legal action. But here's a warning to all to get everything in writing...
- agreed- the two things I remember that have stood in good stead are, as this poster said, 1) get it in writing and 2) don't believe everything else they say (re: teaching loads, research funds, etc. etc.)- the only thing that counts and that you can call them on is salary- cold hard $. that said that school just sucks.